Camp Internet Team: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:03AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Here is an image from the Chumash Painted Cave that some of our teacher's had a guided tour at this past summer .....

Camp Internet Team: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:04AM PST (-0800 GMT)

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:05AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Greetings. Bill here ready to answer your questions.

Camp Internet Team: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:09AM PST (-0800 GMT)
This image was taken by Mark Oliver, an ARARA member who has contributed a set of rock art images to our Camp gallery .....

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:12AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Good Morning Bill - good to 'see' you today. Our students this year are studying different subject tracks - some are learning about the Chumash region's rock art, others are studying the Backcountry Coso sites, and others are studying the Ancient Southwest and Baja California sites....... a question that has come up is dating on the rock art - are there any techniques for dating ? and is there any way to understand the time frame these pictographs and petroglyphs were created on a regional Pacific Southwest basis ?

Tsunami, PHS: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:12AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Did rock art have anything to do with ceremonies ?

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:15AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Here is another by Mark Oliver that has a rare depiction of what might be a human form ...... or is it a bear ??? ... what do you think the creatures to the left are ... ?

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:17AM PST (-0800 GMT)
These are from Baja California and show a long 40' gallery of images ... .......compare them to the humans in the picture for scale .....

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:18AM PST (-0800 GMT)
More from Baja ..... ... up closer

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:20AM PST (-0800 GMT)
I will start with the dating question. Methods for dating archaeological items are based on the presence of carbon for radiocarbon dating. Black pigments in the Chumash area are usually made of charcoal and can be dated. Unfortunately, it requires removing the paint and damaging the paintings to test for the presence of carbon. There are other experimental methods being used in other parts of the country. They have not been attempted for Chumash art, and they also require removing part of the painting. We date the paintings now by comparing them to portable art works that are found in archaeological sites. If we know the date of the archaeological level (using carbon from campfires or shells at the same level), then we know the approximate date of the artifact and assume paintings in the same style are about the same age.

Ayami, PHS: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:21AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Do very many of the pictures of animals show them pierced by weapons in the SW sites ? They do show that often in the African sites and in France ....

Ayami, PHS: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:22AM PST (-0800 GMT)
I am wondering if maybe the animal images aren't all about hunting .. maybe about some sort of ritual magic ?

Laura evans: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:23AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Have scientists been able to identify real stars or constallations in any rock art ?

Roger Lawrence: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:24AM PST (-0800 GMT)
What did they use to chip out the petroglyphs ?

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:25AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Ceremonies: I believe some rock art was produced at ceremonies or as a result of ceremonies, but we do not know for sure. Some southern California tribes produced sandpaintings as part of ceremonies. One clue that we use is the archaeological setting of the rock art site. A place like Painted Rock in the Carrizo Plain is large, open, and the rock is surrounded with evidence of camps or even a possible seasonal village. Although it has not been excavated, we can tell from surface artifacts that many different kinds of activities happened there. The paintings could have been made as part of public ceremonies. Other sites, such as Arrowhead Springs in the San Marcos Pass area outside Santa Barbara, are remote and only a few people could see the rock art at one time. If it was used for ceremonies, it was for a small group of people.

Teri Simmons: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:25AM PST (-0800 GMT)
What is the paint made from ?

Roger Simmons: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:26AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Where have you traveled to study rock art ?

Alicia Robertson: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:27AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Is rock art found all over the world ? is it only done by people who don't write ?

Rich Miner: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:28AM PST (-0800 GMT)
How do you protect it ? doesn't the rain wear it away ?

Mrs. Evarts, LMS: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:30AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Byrd Baylor has a nice book for children about rock art - Before You Came This Way - with collages of dark and light amate paper ..... are there any books you would recomend students read to learn more about rock art ?

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:31AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Some animals are clearly pierced by arrows or darts in some Southwestern rock art. My guess is that some of these are records of a hunt or an imaginary hunt. But that is not the only explanation. The animal struck by an arrow might be a metaphor for death or even the act of passing into a trance which people described as dying and then coming back to life. Many more animals are shown withut arrows, so there were probably many different meanings attached to images of animals. It is interesting that bighorn sheep are the most common animals reproduced in rock art throughout the west. I have visited many of the sites in France. It is not certain that animlas are shown with darts. There are lines that may be darts, but they may also be another kind of symbol that we do not understand. In Africa and the Southwest, some rock art panels clearly show the human, the weapons, and the animals with arrows or darts stuck in them.

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:37AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Could animals be ritual magic? Yes. They could be hunting magic, they could represent people or kin groups, they could represent thoughts that are symbolized by a particular animal. Knowing what the artist meant when they painted is very difficult. Some people think they can recognize star patterns in rock art. They might be right. We know from Aztec documents that a particular star pattern is represented on the Aztec stone calendar. Unfortunately, it does not match what we actually see in the sky, so we may not always be right about what we think we see.

Ayami, PHS: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:38AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Do the descendents of the rock artists think men or women, boys or girls made them ?

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:41AM PST (-0800 GMT)
How is rock art made? Paints are made from red ochre (an iron oxide like rust) for red and yellow, clay or sea shells for white, carbon or manganese for black, and then some other types of stones make green, blue, and a few other colors. Artists also mixed different colors to make different shades and hues. Petroglyphs are made by chipping away dark outer rock to expose lighter rock below. Any harded stone will work, but in some places quartz was used. Certain types of quartz would have glowed in the dark when struck against another rock. We don't know if the artists knew this, but if they worked at night it would have been exciting to see.

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:43AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Where have I travelled? California, Oregon, Arizona, Utah, New Mexico, Colorado, France, Easter Island, and Australia. People made rock art all over the world. People who write still make rock art in some places of the world, but much less than before writing.

Ayami, PHS: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:45AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Do the descendents of any of the people where you have traveled know what the rock art meant ? or has the knowledge been lost ?

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:46AM PST (-0800 GMT)
How do you protect rock art? Only people can protect rock art. It was made in nature and it is made from natural materials. Rocks wear away in rain and wind and rock art will wear away with the rock. Unfortunately, most rock art that is lost is lost as a result of people touching it, writing their names on top of it, shooting at it, or removing it to put in their houses or gardens. If rock art erodes by natural processes in time, we may be saddened by its lose, but it might be what the artist intended. When we destroy it, we commit a crime.

Raymon Munez: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:46AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Do you ever find things stuck onto the rock art ? or is it always a flat painting or carved in ?

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:48AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Books: I will have to check my titles at home. This is a good question and I should have the answer for you. I do have a few very good books for school age at home and I do not remember the titles.

Sammy Lemos: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:50AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Do people study rock art in college ? how do you get a job ?

Sammy Lemos: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:51AM PST (-0800 GMT)
What is the most dangerous place you ever went to see rock art ?

Morgan, PHS: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:52AM PST (-0800 GMT)
What does ARARA do ?

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:54AM PST (-0800 GMT)
When our Trail Guide, Ranger Lorna, at Joshua Trees National Park, took our students on a tour there, seh tol them that the Walt Disney movie company had come in there to film and movie and PAINTED OVER the rock art so it would show up better in their movie !!! Does ARARA have any guidelines and standards for how rock art should be treated ?

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:55AM PST (-0800 GMT)
A couple of questions ask what living people know about rock art and who made it. In anthropology, we call what people know ethnographic data. We know from California ethnographies that girls and boys made rock art in some parts of California for puberty (coming of age ceremonies). We know from many parts of the west that shamans made rock art as part of their ceremonies, prayers, or retreats. In Australia and Arizona, we even know who made some paintings but we do not know what they meant.

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:57AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Here is an image from the Joshua Trees site ....

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 9:59AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hre is a link to the American Rock Art Research Association site - please send your students over to look at this organization to learn about their efforts to identify and protect rock art....button

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:04AM PST (-0800 GMT)
If students or their families have rock art photographs they would like to submit to a contest, photographer Mark Oliver has set up the annual Oliver Award through ARARA and you can learn more about that at this button .... Mr. Oliver has asked Camp to let people know about this contest as it encourages more public awareness of the importance of stewardship of the sites ....

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:04AM PST (-0800 GMT)
I am going to get the next set of answers out of order. I will answer first about Walt Disney and painting over rock art. I have heard many stories like this. I do know of two stories where movie people made paintings, but they did not destroy existing rock art. ARARA does not agree with making modern rock art for movies and leaving it behind. Our standards are that nothing should be done to harm rock art. Some scientific studies may need to take samples for testing, such as dating. We recommend that this only be done by legal scietific projects and only after consultation with the cultures that likely made the rock art. When I have taken samples for testing, it has been done after the local Chumash council approved the removal of samples and those were too small for most people to even notice. I do not know what happened in Joshua Tree, but I was told that national Geographic had repainted rock art in Lava Beds National Monument. Everyone thought this was true, but we found pictures from 20 years before National Geographic was there and we could tell that the paintings had not been changed. Through some luck, the man who orignally found the paintings when a road was being build 60 years earlier visited the cave while we were working. He confirmed that the paintings were as he remembered them.

Josie Landon: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:05AM PST (-0800 GMT)
What do all of the sun-like wheels seem to be in the Chumash rock art ? there are so many of them ....

Dorie and Linda: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:06AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Are there paintings out on the channle islands ?

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:07AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Most rock art is painted or carved in the rock. But, people used beeswax to make rock art in Australia. The are sme Chumash sites that have the remains of tar and it appears the shell beads or other items may have been placed on the rock with the tar.

J.R.: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:07AM PST (-0800 GMT)
How far back do you think the rock art of the Chumash was made ?

Mrs. Tonkin: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:08AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Which tribes did the intiation rock art with boys and girls ?

vanessa: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:10AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Do people study about rocks.

crystalvalley veiw: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:11AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Do you like to do this and find thees things.

Eddie, Valley View: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:11AM PST (-0800 GMT)
How many years are the paintings.

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:12AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Yes, people study rock art in college, but not very many. Archaeologists study rock art, anthropologists study rock art, art historians study rock art. There are others as well, but far less. For example, some poets write about rock art. Studying rock art can take you to dangerous places. I have crawled out on a small ledge about 100 feet above the ground to photograph rock art. It was easy to get there, I made my photographs, then I had to calm down before I could crawl back along the ledge. In one cave in France, I had to crawl through a space so small that I could use only my fingers and toes to push and pull myself along. I could not lift my head to see. Fortunately, I was with an expert who knew the cave, otherwise I might still be there.

vanessa: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:13AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Do other people learn about rock?

Jennie perez: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:13AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Is it hard to look for the painings

vallery@vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:17AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Bill Hyder, How long have you been interested in rock art?

cara@vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:18AM PST (-0800 GMT)
dear dr. Hyder,did they have ay special reason to make rock art?

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:19AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Sun wheels may be suns or stars, but they are also a very common form that humans make. They distinguish Chumash rock art from other areas, but we do not really know what they mean. To the south, the Lusieno made rock art as part of puberty ceremonies. We are not sure what designs were made by boys, but the girls' designs are typically diamond chains and similar designs that might be found on baskets. Some of the Channel Islands have rock art. The most famous site is the Cave of the Whales on San Nicolas Island. I have visited it and it is a very exciting place to be. The ocean waves break across the rocks at the mouth of the cave and you can hear the sea lions and elephant seals barking on the nearby shore. The island is used by the Navy for testing weapons, so it was very exciting to be invited to see the cave and help the Navy find ways to protect it. You can see some of the carved whales at the Southwest Museum in Los Angeles. Some of the carvings fell from the wall and were rescued so others could see the rock art on the mainland.

CAROL@VANALDEN: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:22AM PST (-0800 GMT)
How much do you know about Rock Art?

vallery@vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:23AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Bill Hyder, Have you ever tried to make rock art?

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:23AM PST (-0800 GMT)
I have been studying rock art for over twenty years. I enjoy doing it because it is like solving a mystery. We must find evidence to try to learn how the paintings are. We must study people, religion, and art to try to understand why people made rock art and what it means. We know that some rock art in France and Italy is about 35,000 years old. In Africa, archaeologists have found red ochre crayons that are about 100,000 years old. We think rock art in the American Southwest may be 15,000 years old, but we do not know that for sure. Some rock art shows horses with riders, it had to be made after the Spanish came in the 1700s.

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:23AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Welcome Valley View and Vanalden ....

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:24AM PST (-0800 GMT)
In the tests you got permission from the tribe to do on Chumash sites - what have you found out ?

Stephany @Vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:26AM PST (-0800 GMT)
How was rock art made?

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:27AM PST (-0800 GMT)
I have experimented some with rocks in my backyard that I later destroyed. Somethings are easy to peck in a rock. Somethings are very difficult. I cannot paint like a rock artist. It is harder to learn about rock art than it is to find it once you know how people used the landscape. I think I know alot about the rock art in the areas where I work because i can find the art. But, there are people who know much more than me. None of us know as much as the person who actually made the rock art. hink about the paintings in the museums you visit. You can learn about the artist, sometimes you can even talk to them, but they know their paintings better than any of us ever will.

maggie@vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:27AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Bill Hyder, What materials do you use to make rock art?

EDDIE@vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:29AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dr.Hyder, How do they make rock art?

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:31AM PST (-0800 GMT)
We took samples on two occasions. One was with the Getty and we were studying what they used to make paint. The scientists from the Getty used needles to remove enough pigment for a sample. You could not see the pigment on the tip of the needle, but it was enough for the scietific instruments. This is the same techniques used in the museums to study paintings worth millions of dollars. You cannot make a scrape on a painting in a museum. We don't want that to happen to rock art either, so the museum techniques were perfect for our study. The other sample we took was from a paintings that was falling off the wall. We captured a small piece for dating. Unfortunately, the carbon was too degraded to date.

Jamie@vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:32AM PST (-0800 GMT)
dr.Hyder what did they use to make rock art

Barbara@vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:33AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Did the rock art have a name?

VALLERY@vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:34AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Dr. Hyder, Do the chumash do any types of rock art for special occasions?

Dekar @vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:34AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Is it fun learning about rock art?

Alyssa@Vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:36AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Dr.Hyder, have you ever found rock art that covered all of a wall, rock, or cave?

Elizabeth @vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:36AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Dr Hyder, do you know what the chumash wrote on the rocks?

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:36AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Look back through the session transcript and you will find descriptions of pigments and how people used harder rocks to peck images in softer rocks. I did not describe how pigments became paints. Sometimes red ochre or charcoal can be used to draw on the rock like a crayon. To actually paint, the pigment must be mixed with a binder so it will flow and stick to the rock. People have used water, sap from plants, urine, animal fat, and blood as binders. Chemists in Texas have been trying to use oxygen and heat to vaporize what might be left of binder in samples. They trap the vapor and can use it for radiocarbon dates. One young scientist has managed to capture traces of DNA in the vapor. He was able to demonstrate the the binder was probably deer or antelope blood from the DNA pattern.

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:39AM PST (-0800 GMT)
We do not know what the Chumash wanted to say with their rock art, but they probably had different rock art for different occasions. The pictures of Painted Cave that were at the start of this session show the paintings covering all the cave wall. There are bare spots today, but that is because the wind has eroded away the paintings.

Alyssa@Vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:42AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Dr.Hyder, What is the biggest rock art you have ever seen? How big was it? ____________________________________________ Do all of the rock art paintings have colors?

Elizabeth @vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:42AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Dr. Hyder, have you ever been in a cave and seen rock art or on wall, or rock?

Dekar @vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:43AM PST (-0800 GMT)
What made them paint the things that they painted ?

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:44AM PST (-0800 GMT)
I have visited sites that have petroglyphs running along rock faces for over a mile. Individual paintings can sometimes be 8 feet to 30 feet high or long. All paintings must be in some color, but red is used more often for paintings than any other color. It also lasts longer than any other type of pigment.

David@vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:44AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dr.Hyder, In what places is rock art most commonly found?

melisa@vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:47AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Dr.Hyder, How many rock paintings did you see?

illiana@vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:48AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Dr.Hyder, how many places have you seen rock art in?

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:49AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Human beings related to the world through what they see, touch, taste, and hear. People paint because that is one way in which we understand the world and express what we feel. Think about your own art. Sometimes you make paintings in school and your parents put them up in your house or one the refrigerator. It makes us feel good, it allows us to express ideas that are important to us, it tells people who visit your house that you live there by your art work. There are many things that art means to you, your teachers, your family, your community. People who made rock art were just like you and I. They expressed ideas that were important to them, their family, and their community.

david@vanalden : . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:49AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Dr.Hyder, What people make rock art?

melisa@vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:51AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dr. Hyder,can you read some of the painting?

Amanda@vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:51AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Dr. Hyder, Does rock art still exist?

Kim@Vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:53AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Dr.Hyder, How long did it take the Chumash Indians to make the colors?

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:55AM PST (-0800 GMT)
There must be rocks before you can have rock art. But, not all rocks ar good for rock art. The surface must be smooth. Paintings are often on sanstone or limestone. The surface is smooth, the color is light, and pigments stick and bond with th surface of the rock. Petroglyphs are usually made on rock that weathers and is covered by a patina. A patina is a dark stain that covers the surface of the rock. When you peck away this surface, the rock beneath it is lighter in color and you can see the design. In some cases, people painted the design after pecking it if the rock was too light for the design to show. If you have rock, then you have to have people. That means there is usually water nearby. Often village or camp sites are nearby. Sometimes there are trails. Sometimes, mountain peaks were used where people made retreats to be alone.

Lourdes@vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:55AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Dr.Hyder, How long did it take to make rock art?

jhovany@vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:57AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Dr.Hyder,How were they made?

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:58AM PST (-0800 GMT)
There is still alot of rock art all around the world. Some of it is in the middle of towns and cities in people's yards and in parks. Some of it is in the wilderness where we do not allow buildings or roads. As long as we treat rock art like we treat paintings in our museum and our churches, rock art will survive into the future. But, it is up to us to take the steps to not damage or destroy it.

Kim@Vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:58AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Dr.Hyder,Did the Indians do "Rock Art" for fun or did it mean somthing?

Jason@Vanalden: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 10:59AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dr.Hyder,how many people draw rock art?

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 11:06AM PST (-0800 GMT)
It does not take vey much time to make paint or even peck an image. Pigment can be mixed in a matter of minutes. Pecking a small petroglyph may take 5 mintues. The more you make or the bigger the image, the longer it takes. Of course, you must be good at what you do, otherwise you make a mess.

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 11:09AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Certainly making rock art is a fun thing for people to do. By that I mean that it does soemthing that makes us feel good. Some people probably made some rock art just for fun, but almost all rock art you see probably had a ceremonial, religious, or important social meaning. Think about getting 100 on a spelling test. It makes you feel good, but it may not have been fun.

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 11:11AM PST (-0800 GMT)
People as in different cultures in different places of the world made rock art. Where they did not have rocks, they painted and drew on other things such as animal skins, trees, or even themselves. People as in artists were probably much fewer in number. There are some carvings and paintings that look like the artist was not very skilled, but most rock art looks like a very good artist did the work.

Bill: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 11:17AM PST (-0800 GMT)
I think I have answered all of your questions at some point in the session transcript. If you do not have the answer you want, please ask your question again.

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Wed, Nov 15, 11:17AM PST (-0800 GMT)
We are a little past the planned closing time for this great chat - and we thank Bill Hyder for joining us - and especially for providing more insights into the scientific study of the works AND the reasons and ways they may have been made. Remember, tomorrow night, 7-8 pm is our Family night featuring rock art for learners of all ages - see you then, 7-8pm ! Hands up to thank ARARA and Mr. Hyder for their great work !!