Rock Art Chat

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 7:03AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Welcome to the Third Annual Camp Internet Rock Art Dig!!! November is NATIVE AMERICAN HISTORY Month and we are celebrating native arts by studying ROCK ART this week. This beautiful Native American form of communication was for pre-historic tribes what the Internet is for us – a powerful way to share ideas, information, history, and knowledge.

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 7:03AM PST (-0800 GMT)
This year we have four tracks of study – Channel Chumash, California Backcountry and the Ancient Southwest – all places rich in ROCK ART treasures. Plus our pilot program is Global Gardens and we have a treat for them too……………..The image at the top of the chat room is from the Southwest in Utah, and this one is from a remote canyon in Baja California …………... This image is from the Eastern Sierra Backcountry and is called Coso ………………. And this image is from the Chumash in the mountains behind Santa Barbara.

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 7:04AM PST (-0800 GMT)
CLASSROOMS - Please select six of your BEST questions for Mr. Hyder and let’s get started !

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 7:04AM PST (-0800 GMT)
A question to benefit our GLOBAL GARDEN students is: Mr. Hyder what can you tell us about the use of this plant as a possible part of the rock art process? We have observed it growing in the Southwest, in Indian Canyons in Palm Springs, and it grows all around the Chumash homelands. Is it associated with rock art in different places?

Your Camp Guides: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 7:54AM PST (-0800 GMT)
We are building a new ROCK ART GALLERY at Camp Internet and invite you to visit these images anytime ..... button

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 7:59AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Mr. Hyder - I recently read that there are star chart maps in the rock art at Canyon de Chelly in Arizona made by Navajo people since the 1700s. The rock art shows constellations from the night sky. Does sky lore and astronomy figure into rock art in other places?

Morgana, PHS: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 9:02AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Did children ever make the rock art ?

Morgana, PHS: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 9:03AM PST (-0800 GMT)
What did they use to put the paint on the rocks? And what was the paint made from?

Ayami, PHS: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 9:04AM PST (-0800 GMT)
We read that the red paint was hematite and had to be traded for with an inland desert tribe. Is this true ? Where did the pigments come from ?

Tally, PHS: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 9:04AM PST (-0800 GMT)
How did they reach those really high cliffs ? Ropes ? ladders ?

Bill Hyder: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:06AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hello. I'll start with the first question about the Datura plant. There are often too many questions to answer, so I sometimes group answers. If I don't get to your question, read carefully. I try to answer them all. Datura or Jimson Weed is a deadly plant. If you eat too much, you die. But the Indians knew how to make a tea that would knock out a person. That allowed them to do such things as setting broken bones. One side effect is hallucinations and there is some evidence that images we see in rock paintings might be things seen while under the influence of Datura. It grows in disturbed soils, so it is common to find it around old village sites and freeway offramps.

kileemrs.rivera'sbuddy: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:08AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Is it hard to make symbols on rocks?

Bill Hyder: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:09AM PST (-0800 GMT)
The chumash painted on rocks because they were the backdrops for various activities in their daily life. They also painted on whale bones, wooden poles, and their own bodies. The rocks remain in obvious places where we can still see the paintings. Who were the artists? Some might have been children, we do not know for sure. However, many painting sites are so well done, that it was more likely adults with years of experience who created the paintings.

kileemrs.rivera'sbuddy: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:11AM PST (-0800 GMT)
How long ago did they start writing on rocks?

Sara & Judith/Payne/State Street: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:11AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Where can you find the most Rock Art today?

Bill Hyder: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:14AM PST (-0800 GMT)
I was in Canyon de Chelly in September photographing rock art and saw a few star charts. We do not know that they represent stars. That is what they look like and that is what some Navajo say they are, but we do not know for sure. I had the good fortune to be camping in the canyon in a large alcove. At night, the arch of the alcove frames the sky and the stars seem to be painted on the ceiling. Perhaps that is what the artists were trying to represent. Other tribes probably painted what they saw in the sky. Travis Hudson speculated that the Chumash were dong just that in many of their painting sites. Again, we do not know for sure, but people have been connecting the dots of starts and naming constellations for a very long time. We do it, there is no reason that the Chumash did not do so as well.

jorgemrs. rivera'sbuddy: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:14AM PST (-0800 GMT)
what kinds oif instruments did they use to write or paint on the rocks?

jorgemrs. rivera'sbuddy: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:16AM PST (-0800 GMT)
What kinds of animals did they paint on the rocks?

jorgemrs. rivera'sbuddy: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:17AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Do you have picture of some of the symbols and their possible meanings?

Micky&christina/Payne/State Street: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:17AM PST (-0800 GMT)
How has Rock Art been preserved for such a long period of time?

Sara & Judith/Payne/State Street: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:18AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Can you find

cmacy: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:18AM PST (-0800 GMT)
what do you know

Alejandra/Payne/StateSt.: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:19AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Was Rock Art use for communication?

Bill Hyder: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:19AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Rock art paintings, pictographs, are created with hemitite, charcoal, shell or gypsum, and a variety of other materials. Hemitite lasts the longest because it forms a strong bond with the rock. It is iron oxide--rust--and does not fade except by being worn away. That is one reason why it is so important not to touch rock art. More rock art has been lost in this century from the impacts of people than has been lost to the effects of time, wind, and rain. It is not hard to paint, if you have the necessary skill. The paintings we see in books were painted by artists not unlike those we see in museums. They may have painted for another reason, but their skills were no different. It is even easier to destroy the art than it is to create it. Rock art sites are not protected in museums, they depend on people like you and I to help keep them safe and unharmed.

c macy (Bianca): . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:19AM PST (-0800 GMT)
What colors did they use?

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:20AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Jeffrey Hwe Nightingale Middle School Where else in the United States can you find rock art?

cmacy: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:21AM PST (-0800 GMT)
what do you know about rock art in the desert near Palm Springs?

cmacy;tony: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:21AM PST (-0800 GMT)
did the rock art signify their history or shaaman rituals?

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:21AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Did they paint humans on the rocks?

jorgemrs. rivera'sbuddy: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:22AM PST (-0800 GMT)
What is the largest rock painting that you know so far?

cmacy: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:23AM PST (-0800 GMT)
what do you know about rock art in the desert near Palm Springs?

c macy /Ruby: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:23AM PST (-0800 GMT)
which tribes created rock art?

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:24AM PST (-0800 GMT)
How did the Navajo find canyon's and build their homes?

cmacy: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:24AM PST (-0800 GMT)
what do you know about rock art in the desert near Palm Springs?

cmacy;tony: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:24AM PST (-0800 GMT)
how many areas of rock art are there that you are familiar with?

Bill Hyder: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:25AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Rock art has been created by humans for as long as they have lived on earth. Some of the oldest art that has been directly dated is found in France and Australia. Some rock art in California is probably 10,000 years old, but the dating methods are not exact. In the Chumash area, there are paintings of horse and riders that probably represent the first Spanish visitors in the 1700s and a carved ship is of a style from about 1850. So paintings can be of all ages. We are fortunate in California to have many different rock art traditions fround throughout the state. Along with other western states, we have have one of the largest concentrations of rock art in the world between California and the Southwest. We have so much because we have sandstone rocks that form good surfaces and mild weather to help the paintings survive. Every continent (with the exception of Antartica) has rock art and areas of great concentrations where conditions are most favorable.

jorgemrs. rivera'sbuddy: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:25AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Are there certain colors that the natives used for their rock paintings?

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:26AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Alberto Leon- NIGHTINGALE MIDDLE SCHOOL How did they make such tall paintings?

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:26AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Wai Lam - Nightingale Middle School: Where did they get the colors for the paintings?

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:27AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Victor Martinez- Nightingale Middle School - Where can we find the Chumash rock art?

L.Walker: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:27AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Valerie and Tomas Palm View School How do you know all of this stuff.

L.Walker: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:27AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Valerie and Tomas Palm View School How do you know all of this stuff.

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:27AM PST (-0800 GMT)
in what places can you find different rock arts (different countries)?

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:29AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Lucy and Cindy 6th Nightingale Middle School What materials did they use to make the rock art?

Cmacy/Luis: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:29AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Where was the first piece of rock art that he discovered?

cmacy;tony: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:30AM PST (-0800 GMT)
has there been any destroyed rock art in any of the areas?

Bill Hyder: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:30AM PST (-0800 GMT)
People painted with their fingers, with animal tail brushes, with plant brushes, with just about anything that might be used as a paint brush. many Chumash paintings are very delicate, so they probably made paint brushes from plant material that would allow them fine control over their lines. Most paintings are red because it survives so long. They also used white, black, yellow, and other colors when the material was available. For example, some blues, greens, and an orange are found among the Chumash. People also made petroglyphs by pecking or abrading designs into the rock surface. Usually, these occur where a blck surface called desert varnish darkens the rock. When you break through this surface, the lighter rock shows through so you can see the design.

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:30AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Johanna Najera Nightingale Middle School What does most of the rock art mean?

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:30AM PST (-0800 GMT)
How often do they find rock art?

c macy /Gabby: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:31AM PST (-0800 GMT)
where was the most recent rock art located?

Cmacy/Luis: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:33AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Why do you study rock art?

cmacy;tony: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:33AM PST (-0800 GMT)
have some people ever mistreated the rock art?

cmacy, aldo: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:33AM PST (-0800 GMT)
how did you get involved in finding ancient rock arts?

Taylor-Tulsa-JPerine: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:33AM PST (-0800 GMT)
What are the two most recent discoveries you have made in the United States? And when were they discovered?

L.Walker: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:34AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Valerie and Tomas Palm View School How do you know all of this stuff.

Alyssa-JPerine-Tulsa: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:34AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Did only the cheifs or special people get to make and view the pictures or was the rock art open to the local Indians;like a mueseum?

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:34AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Tina Tran Nightingale Middle School When did you find the rock art?

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:35AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Michelle Tran- Nightingale Middle School: How was the rock art discovered?

Bill Hyder: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:36AM PST (-0800 GMT)
I will skip to some of the latest questions about me. I know this stuff because I became interest in rock art and started looking for it. You have to learn about the people who lived (and still live) in California before 1700. You have to know where they lived and how they used the landscape. You have to learn about their beliefs and their customs. That allows you to look at the land around you and imagine how people were living hundreds of years ago. They were no different from you and I, they just had different kinds of technology--no roads, cars, airports, big buildings. Take that away, and now you can see where they went to gather food, to build their homes, etc. When rocks are present in those places, the right kind of rocks for painting or carving, you find rock art. As I learned more and became more interested in the art, I went back to school to study archaeology. I have been studying rock art for about 25 years. In that time, I have visited many sites in the United States, Mexico, Australia, and France. I also host people from around the world in my home to show them our sites and to learn about theirs.

c macy /Mayra: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:36AM PST (-0800 GMT)
What is the location where the most rock art was found?

cmacy, aldo: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:36AM PST (-0800 GMT)
in what year was the last rock art discovered and where?

cmacy;tony: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:37AM PST (-0800 GMT)
are there any clues that could lead to the rock art locations?

Cmacy/Luis: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:37AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Where and when did you find the most famous rock art?

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:38AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Laura Rivas Nightingale Middle School Where has the most rock art found?

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:38AM PST (-0800 GMT)

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:38AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Tanya,Saray and Zulaima Palm View school. Why did you thought your work was interesting.

Alfonso-Tulsa-Papietro: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:38AM PST (-0800 GMT)
What materials did they use to make the impressions?

c macy /Andrea: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:39AM PST (-0800 GMT)
In what year was the first rock art found?

cmacy, aldo: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:39AM PST (-0800 GMT)
in what year did you find your first rock art?

cmacy/daniel: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:40AM PST (-0800 GMT)
How do you feel when you find an intersting piece of rock art

cmacy;tony: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:42AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Thank you for your time with our class's question and anxiety for their answers.

Cmacy/Luis: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:42AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Thank you for the time you spent on answering our questions.

Bill Hyder: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:43AM PST (-0800 GMT)
The most common animal in California rock art is the bighorn sheep. Most were carved or painted in the desert areas where the bighorn lived (such as around Palm Springs--there are many rock art sites in the areas around Palm Springs). The Chumash painted deer and fish as the most common animals. They also painted bear, coyote, and snakes. After the Spansih came, the horse becomes common in many areas. Was the art a form of communication? Yes, i think it was. But, it was not like a book with a written message. Art has to be seen and the figures have to be familiar to the viewer to understand what it means. It is hard for us to know what people thought when the paintings were created, so it is hard to know exactly what they mean. Some of them were probably made by shamans or at the direction of shamans. Some were made for other reasons. Let me give you an example. Most of us see a cross and we think about the church or religion. Why? Because we see crosses on churches and in religious stories nearly everyday of our lives in our culture. No one has to tell us what it means, we know from experience. We do not share the experience of the people who made rock art.

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:43AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Mirna Romero Nightingale Middle School Were was the most recent Rock Art found

c macy /Mayra and Ruby: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:44AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Mr.Hyder Thank you for your time and for your great answers.We had a great time and we also learned alot of things about rock art.

cmacy, aldo: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:44AM PST (-0800 GMT)

L.Walker: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:46AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Aaron,Ernesto,Tomas,Valerie Palm View In what year was the last rock art discovered?

cmacy/daniel: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:46AM PST (-0800 GMT)
thank you for answering our question.Also for having spent this time.

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:48AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Thank you for giving us information on rock art. fro maria,aldo,yuri,vanessa, and marcos

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:49AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Laura Rivas Nightingale Middle School When you see rock art could you kind of make an estimation of how old the rock art is?

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:49AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Saray,Tanya and Zulaima Palm View school. Where do you find dose kinds of paints

Bill Hyder: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:51AM PST (-0800 GMT)
I find rock art interesting because it makes me think about what it means to be human, about who I am as well as the people of the past. Humans have been interested in rock art for a very long time. The Chinese wrote about old rock art over 1,000 years ago (they have some very old books). The first California rock art was described in 1850 and people have been looking for and writing about rock art ever since. You can find rock art in almost every area of California. I have worked around Tule Lake in the northeast of California, around Bishop, and in the Chumash area. Over the next year, I will be visiting the rock art in our California State parks to photograph it to help protect it. Some of those sites will eventually be opened to the public to visit. Others will not because people have harmed the rock art. You can visit Painted Cave near Santa Barbara and Tomo-Kahni near Tehachipi on guided tours and Indian Grinding Rocks on a self-guided tour. Other state parks have rock art that is not formally developed for people to see. Other BLM lands have some sites marked for visitation.

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:52AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Laura Rivas Nightingale Middle School In what year do you guys think the rock art began?

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:52AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Sebastian and Isai 6th Nightingale Middle School: Why do you think the Anasazi made these types of pots?

Taylor-Tulsa-JPerine: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:53AM PST (-0800 GMT)
What is the most amazing and intresting thing you have ever discovered in your field of work?

Carl, Camp Trainer: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:53AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hello Mr. Hyde and fellow campers, We are here at a training sessionfor new Camp teachers from the LA Unified School District (LAUSD). First time we are participating in live chat. Interesting topic.

Bill Hyder: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:56AM PST (-0800 GMT)
It is hard to tell how old rock art is just by looking at it. Some paintings look to be very fresh. A large number of sites have been found in the lands north of the Grand Canyon in the last ten years. Some of these are over 2,000 years old and look very fresh. Some were painted about 1900 (the people who still live there know when they were painted and why--there are still living and active Indian cultures in North America) and a few of these paintings are almost gone. Paintings and carvings survive due to the material used, they type of rock, the exposure to the elements, and protection from modern people. Most rock art that is destroyed is destroyed by the actions of people like you and I who do not respect past cultures. I have never damaged rock art and I have stopped people from doing so. I participate in these chats to help others learn of the importance of rock art and our duty to help protect it for future generations.

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:57AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Laura Rivas Nightingale Middle School How did you guys learn to understand rock art?

makaveli: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:57AM PST (-0800 GMT)
hello, how are you???

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:57AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Ms. Gomes - Nightingale Middle School - These chats push the envelope for my students. They have to dig deeply to ask a question that will give them information to trigger other questions. Thank you to all the scientists who are teaching us all.

L.Walker: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:57AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Valerie,Tomas,Ernesto,AARON Palm View What has been your best picture?

makaveli: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 10:59AM PST (-0800 GMT)
what are some of north america's most precious rocks???

Bill Hyder: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:01AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Were humans the subject of paintings--yes. Some of the most interesting paintings are of people. The navajo created records of events that were important in their lives and many of these involved representing people. The Chumash created images that probably represent costumed dancers and some of these are quite exciting to see. I don't know if I could identify any one thing as being most amazing or exciting. They are all special to me. However, Painted Rock in the Carrizo Plain was a very special site. Most of the paintings have been destroyed by vandals, but the rock is very dramatic. It was my third visit before I could speak in a normal voice. Walking into the center of the rock outcrop was like walking into a cathedral. You had to sit and contemplate where you were and how spectacular some places can be with no help from humans.

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:02AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Johanna Najera Nightingale Middle School Even though you guys dont always find rock art you always have hope to find and learn new stuff, correct

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:03AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hello to Carl and Teachers from LAUSD - glad you could join in the chat today ...

L.Walker: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:05AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Valerie,Tomas,Ernesto,Antonio Palm View School When was the first picture envented.

makaveli: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:06AM PST (-0800 GMT)
what is the worls most expensive rock???

Bill Hyder: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:07AM PST (-0800 GMT)
People live on the land and come to know it. The canyons and rock art sites seem far removed from us today because we live in cities and travel on roads that avoid the canyons and mountains. Walking through the land rather than driving reveals many things that only seem secret from inside our cars. The Chumash, the Anasazi, the Navajo knew the land where they lived (the Chumash and navajo still do, the descendants of the Anasazi--the Hopi, the Zuni, and others still do). They created rock art in their familiar landscape. What are some of the precious places? Painted Cave, Canyon de Chelly, the Great Gallery in Utah, a place called Plieto Creek near Grapevine, CA, Anza-Borrego State Park near San Diego, the area around Bishop, California, Grand Gulch in Utah. I could keep going because there are many more.

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:08AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Fernando Oscar, and Aaron Palm View school What has been your most interesting picture?

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:08AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Mr. Hyder - can you tell us a little more about the upcoming Calif Parks Survey / photo project ? Is there any intention to make the photos available on their web site as a virtual tour eventually ? Our students would find a LOT of value from that ...

jorgemrs. rivera'sbuddy: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:10AM PST (-0800 GMT)
how old are you?

: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:10AM PST (-0800 GMT)
F

Bill Hyder: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:11AM PST (-0800 GMT)
We do not think of the rock art as having monetary value. it is of value to us as humans. It helps us learn and understand something about who we are. It helps affirm the history of people like the Chumash and it helps affirm the fact that we are not really different from one another. We may have different cultures and different religoius beliefs, but the art helps us understand that we are all human beings. Because of that, I am less interested in finding something new than in learning something new about a place. Some of these places have been studied for a very long time. Some have been known and never studied. Of course, it is always exciting to find something new. Every archaeologist is excited by finding something new. But most work is routine, exacting, hard, and very satisfying.

L.Walker: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:14AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Ernesto and Antonio Palm View School. What do you now about rock art?

makaveli: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:14AM PST (-0800 GMT)
was rock art a major form of communication form the native americans??????

Sharyn, Pasquale: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:16AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Mr. Hyder what is the nearest area to LA to study rock art?

Mr. Caesar, LAUSD Verdugo Hills H.S.: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:17AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Mr. Hyder, Are you aware of any rock art found in the San Fernando Valley area of California?

Bill Hyder: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:17AM PST (-0800 GMT)
I don't know what the state parks will do with my work beyond using it as a baseline to monitor rock art sites and help devise new ways to protect them. Part of my project is to help devise ways to decide what rock art sites to open to the public. It is a hard decision because some sites are fragile and can be destroyed by visitors, others are still of importance to Native Americans and need to be kept private for their use (I do not intrude and them what or why--it is their religion and beliefs that deserves the same respect as mine), others are hard to reach or are not all that interesting for everyday visitors, and some you would want to see. Planning how to make a site public and still protect it from harm is a difficult question. I don't know all the answers, neither do the people int he state parks. By talking and sharing ideas from different perspectives, we hope to help answer some of these difficult questions. Painted Cave has a bank vault ate over the mouth of the cave. It is hard to look through, but inside you see many names carved despite the gate. I hope we can help find better ways for people to be able to see the art without the gate in the way and without senseless people destroying it.

Bill Hyder: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:21AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Yes, there is Chumash rock art in the San Fernando area. The Southwest Museum has a recreation of one of these sites. It also has a slab of rock with carved fish from San Nicolas Island (the slab fell off the wall, it was not removed from the wall). Otherwise, you can vist the Maturango Museum in Ridgecrest and sign up for a tour of the Coso Range. Not many people get to go, but if you get lucky you can see some of the finest pertroglyphs in the United States. It is not too far from LA. Painted Cave is in Santa Barbara and Tomo-Kahni is near Bakersfield.

Bill Hyder: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:24AM PST (-0800 GMT)
I know many of you are already gone. I must go and do other things myself. Thank you for all the good questions today and good luck with your studies. Bill Hyder

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:24AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Mr. Hyder - we have considered working on a GIS map of rock art sites, but come up against this same issue of what should be known to the public. The vanadalism of the sites is such a sign of dominant-culture disrespect - so we are focusing on EDUCATING the coming generations to RESPECT this very special cultural resource and your time with us is a very valued part of that education process.

L.Walker: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:25AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Antonio,Ernesto Palm View School. Why do you think your job is interesting?

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:26AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Thanks everyone for the great ROCK ART CHAT today - we hope you will all be part of the solution to preserving these cultural treasures - let other people know what you learned here today !

Carl, Camp Trainer: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:30AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Here is a web page button of the Maturango Museum in Ridgecrest that features a picture of the petroglyphs that Mr. Hyder mentions.

makaveli: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:33AM PST (-0800 GMT)
hello, how are you???

Carl, Camp Trainer: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:34AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Here is a photograph of one of those petroglyphs in Ridgecrest.

Carl, Camp Trainer: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 11:34AM PST (-0800 GMT)
Here:

Mr. Caesar, LAUSD Verdugo Hills H.S.: . . . . Tue, Nov 13, 0:04PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Mr. Hyder, Are you aware of any rock art found in the San Fernando Valley area of California?

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