David@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 6:14PM PST (-0800 GMT)
What people did rock art?

David@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 6:17PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Why were rock art placed on objects?

melvin brown pelicans madison school: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 6:52PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hello everybody lets roll!

melvin brown pelicans madison school: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 6:54PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Why did people do rock art ?

melvin brown pelicans madison school: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 6:56PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Which Indian tribes did rock art?

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 6:57PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Daniels in the house

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:00PM PST (-0800 GMT)
It's hard to know which Indian tribes did rock art because the drawings are pretty old and may or may not be the same people who live there today (or at contact with White man...) Why is even harder to know!

Bill: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:00PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Why did people create rock art? One trait that distinguishes us as humans is the ability and desire to relate visually to the world around us. We express our hopes, desires, thoughts, and beliefs through visual media. Today, we rely on clothing styles, automobiles designs, house styles, furniture, art museums, flags, etc to express our identity, social class, religous beliefs, national identity, etc. Rock art is one product of humanity's use of visual expression.

Timothy - Camp: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:01PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Welcome to Camp Internet's Family Night Chat - our focus tonight is on Rock Art and we are honored to have as our guests Bill Hyder of the American Rock Art Association at UC Santa Cruz and Janet Westbrook from Cerro Coro College. Chat starts at 7 pm.

Daniel@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:01PM PST (-0800 GMT)
What colors did the use?

Ms Meier of Arrowhead: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:02PM PST (-0800 GMT)
What is the truth behind the assumption that many petroglyphs represented images from dreams and that the native americans believed these to be messages that they were attempting to convey to future generations?

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:03PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Did the rock art have a certain kind of name?

Marcy at Camp Internet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:03PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Teachers and families from all over California have been invited to attend this Camp Internet Family Night Chat ... ... the Camp hosts these once a month to get scientists, historians, authors and artistis in conversations with students, parents, teachers and friends of Camp Internet. Please let us know your name and where you are from in the Your Handle box below each time you post ......

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:03PM PST (-0800 GMT)
What colors they had chemicals to make them with - hemitite makes good reds; charcoal makes good blacks; but blues, greens seem to be harder to make - OR they didn't last as long as the reds and blacks we see today...

Elizabeth@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:04PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Why did the chumash make rock art?

kim@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:04PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hi!David and Patric. Dear Dr.Hyder, have you ever painted or tried painting "Rock Art?"

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:05PM PST (-0800 GMT)

Sibulkin@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:06PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Did certain tribes exhibit specific color preferences?

Bill: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:06PM PST (-0800 GMT)
In yesterday's chat with the students, I was asked about books to read. For kids in the 9-12 range, I recommend Native American Rock Art: Messages from the Past by Yvette La Pierre. It was published in 1994 and is still available via Amazon.com and other booksellers.

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:06PM PST (-0800 GMT)
how did native american's discover how to do rock art?

Paradise HomeSchool: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:06PM PST (-0800 GMT)
To Bill Hyder: how old is the oldest rockart in California? and where is that rock art?

Daniel@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:07PM PST (-0800 GMT)

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:08PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Were the Chumash the only tribe that made rock art?

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:08PM PST (-0800 GMT)
we have some petroglyphs in the Coso Range in the Mojave Desert dated at 16,000 years

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:08PM PST (-0800 GMT)

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:09PM PST (-0800 GMT)
There is rock art - both petroglyphs and pictographs, all over the state, all over the US, all over the world!

Ms Meier of Arrowhead: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:09PM PST (-0800 GMT)
It is wonderful to be able to ask an expert...thanks for being here...Another question I have is about similarities between Native American rock art and symbols traditionally from ancient civilizations such as the Greeks. Do you think that there are some that appear to be the same such as the circular designs that we commonly see?

David@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:10PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Were the Chumash the only tribe that created rock art?

Alyssa@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:11PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hi Vanalden people! David, "Barbar", Elizabeth, Patric, Daniel, and Kim who is at my house! Dear Dr.Hyder, Do you think the people who did rock art resemble graffiti artists in any way?

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:11PM PST (-0800 GMT)
when rock art was made, did the natives just painted what they wanted to paint or did someone else tell them?

Bill: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:11PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Are rock art paintings dream images for future generations? This question is difficult to answer because we probably mean different things when we use the word dreams. The word for a shaman often translates as dreamer--vision seeker perhaps. Dreams might be a good word for many rock art images, so might the owrd prayers. The fact is that we really do not know exactly what any one painting might have meant, although we can make educated guesses. In some cases, we have good ethnographic data to help us understand the art. In most cases, however, the study of rock art is really a study of how we as humans interact with and relate to the world around us.

David@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:11PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hey KIM!!!!

Daniel@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:11PM PST (-0800 GMT)
What made them paint the things that they painted?

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:12PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Besides petroglyphs (rock drawings made by pecking into a patina varnish), and pictographs (drawings made with "paints" of various chemicals), there are also "intaglios" - drawings made by scraping away dark rocks to make a lighter pattern - the huge figures near Blythe, CA; and geoglyphs - rock alignments - long lines of rocks - found in the Mojave and Sonora Deserts.

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:13PM PST (-0800 GMT)
hello vanalden people and Mr. Sibulkin

Elizabeth@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:13PM PST (-0800 GMT)
What tools did they use?

Marcy at Camp Internet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:14PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Janet - in our chat yesterday Bill Hyder commented on there being mountain sheep in western rock art in many states - it is a common image in the Coso area - any ideas why ?

Sibulkin@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:14PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hi, you terrific Vanalden kids. Be patient with your questions.

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:15PM PST (-0800 GMT)
what kind of images did the natives design on the rocks?

David@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:15PM PST (-0800 GMT)
What did the Native Americans use to paint their rock art?

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:15PM PST (-0800 GMT)
tools - for petroglyphs, something harder than the rock they were pecking on; most in the Mojave desert are on basalt, a hard volcanic rock- some quartz stones have been found associated with the drawings. There are some pecked into marble in Death Valley - but most are in basalt where they had basalt to work with. In our deserts, most of the petroglyphs are found near water.

Bill: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:16PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Janet mentioned the rock art of the Coso and its estimated age. That goes to the heart of the question about the Chumash and who made rock art. As Janet noted, people at all corners of the planet and at all times made rock art and other forms of art. Chumash rock art is probably not as old as some of the petroglyphs in the Coso Range, but we do know that some of it is at least 2,000 years old. I don't think people learned to make rock art. I believe the arts are what distinguish us as humans and are part of our capabilities to live in a changing world, adapt to new situations, etc.

maggie@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:16PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Did the people that made rock art see things in their minds and copy it on the rock?

Elizabeth@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:16PM PST (-0800 GMT)
HI kim and Alyssa and Mr.Sibulkin

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:17PM PST (-0800 GMT)
sheep - there must have been bunches of them in the past, but there aren't today. However, remember that the climate today is NOT what it was like in the past, even 1000 years ago, but especially not what it was like 3000-5000 years ago when a lot of the Coso rock art was done, the sheep drawings in particular. Then it was grassy and the rivers ran here in what was NOT yet a desert - so there probably were lots of bighorn sheep. Today there are none in the Cosos, but Death Valley still has some.

Alyssa@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:18PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hi Mr.Sibulkin, and haloo all other vanalden voyagers! Dear Dr. Hyder, What is the closest place to Los Angeles that we can view rock art in its natural setting?

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:18PM PST (-0800 GMT)
would it take experience to make rock art or no experience?

maggie@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:18PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Do the rocks have to be a certain shape to carve or paint on?

Timothy - Camp: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:19PM PST (-0800 GMT)
There are many good links within Camp Internet where Rock Art is explored: goto: button and also: button to explore some interesting photography

Sibulkin@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:19PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Bill, Janet, thanks for enlightening us all. Is there any evidence that rock art was the object of idol worship?

maggie@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:20PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hey Elizabeth and Kim!

brown pelicans madison: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:20PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hi

Elizabeth@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:20PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Why did the Native Americans make rock art?

Marcy at Camp Internet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:20PM PST (-0800 GMT)
There is an online Coso Rock Art video available for you to view with a compatable player after the chat this evening accessible through Camp Internet's California Backcountry video library at button .... please wait to run it until AFTER the chat has concluded between 8-11pm to balance the bandwidth tonight .. thanks.

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:21PM PST (-0800 GMT)
the shape question is interesting. For petroglyphs, shape doesn't seem to matter a whole lot, but having patina on top of lighter colored basalt was important if you wanted your drawing to show at all. Undoubtedly there were "sacred" sites for some groups. A new study is being done to see if SOUND was important to choosing a site. Echos, vibrations, etc. Interesting idea.

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:21PM PST (-0800 GMT)
do you have to do rock art on a certain kind of rock?

jon f. brown pelicans madison: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:21PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hello

Ms Meier of Arrowhead: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:21PM PST (-0800 GMT)
So Bill....do you think it is their method of storytelling rather than an explanation of their thoughts? In discussion with my students...I would like to tell them that it is like journal writing would be to us. Would this be incorrect?

Melvin@brown pelicans@madison school: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:22PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Why was Rock Art so important to indians?

Timothy - Camp: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:22PM PST (-0800 GMT)
To read The Shamanic Tradition in Chumash Rock Art by William D. Hyder and Georgia Lee (c)1994 goto the Camp Internet Trailguide web at: button

Elizabeth@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:22PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hey Maggie!

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:22PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Rock Artist, Where do you find Rock Art.

Bill: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:23PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Were rock artists graffiti artists? That is an interesting question because several anthropologists have studied graffiti in an attempt to learn moe about rock art. A recent book by Susan Phillips called Wallbangin': Gangs and Graffit in Los Angeles even opens with a description of a walk down Little Petroglyph Canyon in the Coso Range. Phillips makes the point, however, that graffiti is created in opposition to the dominate culture whereas rock art was likely created as part of the dominate culture. So, we can learn much from the study of graffiti about how and why people use images to express the identity, territory, why many images appear to be similar (did people paint what they wanted or what they were told--neither, they painted what was right for their culture), etc. But, you would want to look at public murals, church images, flags and the like to see something modern that might be similar to what rock art was to ancient peoples.

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:23PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Why did Picasso paint what he did??? Why do YOU paint what you do?? Only the artist knows exactly why and why he/she put it were he/she did. WHO painted/pecked these drawings??

Marcy at Camp Internet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:23PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Note - if you would like to view the rock art video or visit other areas of the Camp program this evening 8-11pm, the same Log on and Password you used to enter the chat will work elsewhere when asked - familyfun / ci2learn .... this is a feature of the Family Nights open to the public on Camp.

Elizabeth@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:24PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Why did the chumash make rock art?

Melvin@brown pelicans@madison school: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:25PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Where is rock art very numerous?

Raneta Harris, Chico : . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:25PM PST (-0800 GMT)
I am a teacher in Northern California who heard about Cmap Internet at the CUE Conference - is there any rock art in the northern Sierras or Cascades ?

Tyler@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:25PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Were the Native Americans telling stories on the rocks for others to read?

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:25PM PST (-0800 GMT)
can rock art be made on small rocks or only big rocks?

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:26PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Remember that there are rocks in rows and strings of all shapes here in the desert. "Rock Art" isn't always paintings or pecked stuff - but same who? and why? questions apply.

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:27PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hey Alyssa! Its me Chris Reed Its CoOl oVEr hErE

Elizabeth@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:27PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Who started to make rock art?

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:27PM PST (-0800 GMT)
did only chumash make rock art or did other tribes?

maggie@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:27PM PST (-0800 GMT)
What is the best material to use on rock art?

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:27PM PST (-0800 GMT)
sometimes smaller rocks were made into necklace-type things; petroglyphs have been pecked into all sizes of rocks. Often here in the cosos newer pictures have been pecked over older ones - a sacred spot? getting the best of another culture??

Melvin@brown pelicans@madison school: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:27PM PST (-0800 GMT)
what was the reason for rock art?

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:29PM PST (-0800 GMT)
We have some GREAT paintings in Australia which date to over 50,000 years; some also in South America with dates of about that; painted caves in France, Spain, and now Italy with dates to 35,000 years. Folks have been painting for a long time!!

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:29PM PST (-0800 GMT)
hi, "Alyssa@Vanalden"

Sherry, Vanalden parent: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:30PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Dr. Hyder, some rock artists were quite impressive draftsmen and women. Like any good artist, though, I would think that practice makes perfect. Have you found the equivalent of "sketch Pad" caves where the growth of particular artists is evident?

Sibulkin@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:30PM PST (-0800 GMT)
I grew up on the East Coast (Boston) but never heard of rock art, although I'm aware that the Eastern tribes "decorated" their lodgings. Is there known rock art on the Atlantic coast?

Bill: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:31PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Wow, you have a lot of questions. I hope Janet and I are getting to them with our answers. I'm trying to group several questions at once into each answer. If I miss your question, please excuse me. Why do people create rock art, to express their thoughts, for storytelling, as journal writing? I think each might be true somewhere, but I like the idea of journal writing. If you think of a journal as a place where we might express what we are feeling, tell a story about our day, or say a prayer. You would have to expand the analogy since journals are usually written for one's self. Some rock art sites are clearly private in that you have to find them and you have to be in a restricted space to see the art. But, other rock art sites are big and visible to a large number of people over a long distance. The are public sites and it would be more like writing an autobiography for the world to read or standing up in church and leading a public prayer. In fact, many rock art probably were created as a backdrop to or part of some other ritual.

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:31PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hey how come your not answering me Can your answer me please!

Melvin@brown pelicans@madison school: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:31PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hey everybody having fun?

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:31PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Much "rock art" is associated with sun things - winter and summer solstice things, lesser amounts to equanox dates; places where the sun rises or sets and makes a pattern on the rock surfaces - or a petroglyph placed so that the sun makes a pattern on it on a specific date, etc.

Tyler@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:32PM PST (-0800 GMT)
somebody please type a question

Daniel@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:32PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hi David,Tyler,chirs

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:32PM PST (-0800 GMT)
would the natives carve the rock with the design on it into a animal or simble?

maggie@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:33PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Do you understand the writings on the rocks?

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:33PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Think about the all the rock art which has been done that didn't last. It's absolutely amazing how much there is left today after many thousands of years. Will our grafiti of today last that long??

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:34PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hey Mr.Sibulkin! Its me Chris Reed

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:34PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hi,every1

David@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:34PM PST (-0800 GMT)
What did the Native Americans use to as tools for rock art and what did the Native Americans use to make their paint?

Timothy - Camp: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:35PM PST (-0800 GMT)
We have a gallery of rockart photography by Mark Oliver at button

Sibulkin@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:35PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hi, Chris, welcome aboard....you and all the Vanalden students and parents!!

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:35PM PST (-0800 GMT)
The writings on the rocks don't seem to be an alphabet of any kind - so the pictures are supposed to mean something, at least to the artist and hopefully the tribe who lived there.

Daniel@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:35PM PST (-0800 GMT)
What is my favorite color

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:36PM PST (-0800 GMT)
What do these rockart mean?

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:36PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hey Tyler! Its me ChrIs ReEd HowZit!

cara@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:37PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Dr.Hyder,did the tribes have to have a certian reason to make rock art?

Ms Meier -Teacher in Arrowhead: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:37PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Have you found evidence of written words as well as pictographs in your rock art study? I realize the identification of written language might be difficult to recognize.

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:37PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Did kids get to make rock art?? -whether pecking, painting, or lines of rocks?? Maybe....

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:37PM PST (-0800 GMT)
since natives made rock art, was rock art very important to natives or was the rock art worth nothing?

Bill: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:37PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Rock art is found throughout California, including the Sierras and Cascades. From Chico, I would recommend visiting Lava Beds National Monument. They have several lava tubes with paintings that are open to the public and Petroglyph point with thousands of petroglyphs that can be easily visited. Virtually every state has rock art except for Louisiana, a river delta with no rocks. Visit my web site: zzyx.ucsc.edu/Comp/Bill and check the North merican links. I do not have links to information about every state, but I think there is a link or two to Vermont sites. There are many more sites in the western U.S. however. Why? Part of that is because we have many sandstone outcrops that make very good surfaces for painting. Janet mentioned some of the types of petroglyph surfaces. The environment in the west promotes the creation of desert varnish which helps create striking petroglyphs when portions of it is pecked away.

Sibulkin@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:38PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Is there any evidence, positive or negative, that rock art was predominantly a male or female occupation?

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:38PM PST (-0800 GMT)
I don't know of anyone who has come up with "words" - ie. an alphabet type thing. ??

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:38PM PST (-0800 GMT)

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:38PM PST (-0800 GMT)
If you don't answer me in 5 seconds I am sighning off

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:39PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Mr.Sibulkin the Rock Artist Is not anserwing me.

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:40PM PST (-0800 GMT)
What do these rockart mean?

Sibulkin@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:40PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Somebody here forgot to put their name in the "handle" box.

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:40PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Male or female? Adult or child? No real way to tell, is there? Look at today's art - can you tell by looking at a painting, or grafiti, who did it??

Daniel@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:40PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Were did they find the rock that is big and flat

David@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:40PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Did the Native Americans also paint their rock art in caves or on rocks to show instructions?

Melvin@brown pelicans@madison school: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:40PM PST (-0800 GMT)
BYe everybody!!!

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:40PM PST (-0800 GMT)
hi, cara,chris, and the other vanalden people who just came online

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:40PM PST (-0800 GMT)

cara@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:41PM PST (-0800 GMT)
don't be rude to Dr.Hyder!

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:41PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dr.Hider, Where do find Rock Art

Renata Harris, Chico: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:41PM PST (-0800 GMT)
I am interested in knowing what information there is about the initiation ceremonines / coming of age rituals that are assoicated with rock art in the western states .....

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:42PM PST (-0800 GMT)
I've always wondered how come the drawings on our walls, out west anyway, aren't "realistic". How come the artists in the caves of France could paint the lovely animals with striking reality, but when it comes to pecking sheep on Mojave desert rocks, they aren't realistic at all. Or people. Was it "bad news" to make them realistic??

Bill: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:42PM PST (-0800 GMT)
What about colors? Janet mentioned the list of colors. Red is the most common color found. The oldest red pigment cakes come from excavations dated to 100,000 years ago in Africa. The people may not have been making paintings like we see to day, but they were probably painting their skin red. Red ochre is very common, it is basically rust--iron oxide. Red ochre also bonds well on rock and becomes part of the rock. It can lst for thousands of years while other colors erode away. So, we see more red than any other color, but that may be because it lasts longer.

Tyler@ Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:42PM PST (-0800 GMT)
I bet Daniel's favorite color is blue.

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:43PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Waiting for answer!

David@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:43PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Is there a meaning that the natives created their rockart?

Daniel@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:43PM PST (-0800 GMT)
CARA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!and room9!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:43PM PST (-0800 GMT)
This last one is a great picture of Coso rock art found in the Mojave Desert in just one location. It has a very distinctive style. Even rock images 15 miles away don't look like these!

cara@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:44PM PST (-0800 GMT)
WHAT,DANIEL!

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:44PM PST (-0800 GMT)

Chris Reed: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:44PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Thank you Mr.Sibulkin

maggie@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:44PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hi Mr.Sibulkin!

Sherry, Vanalden parent: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:44PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Dear Dr. Hyder, does anyone in your field hold out hope for finding the equivalent of a "Rosetta Stone" for interpreting rock art of a certain area or era?

Ms Meier -teacher in Arrowhead: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:44PM PST (-0800 GMT)
When you consider all the ways that we decorate our environment, whether it be home or community, it makes me wonder if rock art was also a way to decorate the natural environment for events that they wanted to remember. What do you think, Janet and Bill?

David@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:44PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hey Tyler, like being on the INTERNET?

Sibulkin@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:45PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Is there any indication that rock art was traded between tribes?

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:45PM PST (-0800 GMT)
did rock art have any signs that only that same tribe can read or just knew what it meant?

Daniel@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:45PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Tyler you are rong it is green.

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:45PM PST (-0800 GMT)

Dominique@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:45PM PST (-0800 GMT)
What do these rockarts mean?

Bill: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:46PM PST (-0800 GMT)
What does rock art mean, was it important? We cannot say what it means with any certainty, but we can say it was important to the people who created it and it is important to their descendants. To notive peoples, rock art says they were here and have always been here. It says their history, their beliefs continue to survive. This is their place in the world.

Elizabeth@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:46PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Good Night Everyone!

maggie@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:46PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Bye Elizabeth and Mr. Sibulkin!!

cara@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:47PM PST (-0800 GMT)
did rock art sometimes mean a story?

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:47PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Seems to me that here in the desert, which I keep mentioning hasn't always been a desert, that more rock art, most rock art, is located near water.... and along trade routes, which of course go from water hole to water hole.

Chris Reed: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:47PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Cara you are mean Its Chris Reed, Mr.Reed

David@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:47PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Are there certain places that the natives created their rockart?

cara@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:48PM PST (-0800 GMT)
am i the only one on now????

maggie@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:48PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Good Night Everyone!

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:48PM PST (-0800 GMT)
The four big sheep are also Coso rock art - from Big Petroglyph canyon. It is a good example of newer art being pecked over older art.

Sibulkin@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:48PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Janet, think you hit on an interesting point. Rock art, though intriguing, is decidedly unrealistic in shape, form, etc. Wonder if the Native Americans (and I know there were hundreds of tribes) had a common antipathy to realism (steal your spirit??)

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:48PM PST (-0800 GMT)
who ever said "they want the rock artists to answer there question, needs to learn some manners!

Daniel@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:49PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Were can I find rock Art

Chris Reed: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:50PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hey Dominique Its Chris Reed,Mr.Reed

Sibulkin@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:50PM PST (-0800 GMT)
You're right, Barbara. Some folks need to learn some manners. Thanks for the wonderful example you and the Vanalden students set.

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:50PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Certainly tribes today think that taking their picture "steals" their spirit. Where can one find rock art - all over the world!! It's just amazing how much there is.

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:50PM PST (-0800 GMT)
no cara you are not the only one I am here to

David@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:50PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hey Dominiqe!Didn't know you were ganna be on the INTERNET!!

Bill: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:50PM PST (-0800 GMT)
I do not think there is a Rosetta Stone for reading rock art. It is not writing. In some cases we may be able to know what some rock art means. Girls painted images after their puberty ceremonies in southern California. We know some of these places and we think we know what the girls painted, diamond chains, looped circles, etc. These are designs similiar to those found on baskets. We know why they were painted (it was how you ended a ceremony), we know it they were painted by girls who had come of age, we may even think of them as dream images, but none of this tells us what they "mean."

cara@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:50PM PST (-0800 GMT)
what was life like when rock art was made?who were around then?

Daniel@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:51PM PST (-0800 GMT)
I WIN!!!!!!!!!!!

Dominique@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:51PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hello David and Mr.Sibulkin.

cara@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:52PM PST (-0800 GMT)
I'm with you,Barbara!

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:52PM PST (-0800 GMT)
my clock says 10 more minutes till 8

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:52PM PST (-0800 GMT)
the rock art we see today is dated to at least 50,000 years - which isn't all that old. Homo sapiens of some sort did them.

Sibulkin@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:53PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Do modern Native Americans practice rock painting?

cara@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:54PM PST (-0800 GMT)
so does mine!uh-oh,we don't have that long!.....i think...

Janine from Lake Arrowhead: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:54PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hi everybody! I have one question. Are most rock art legends or real events?

Daniel@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:54PM PST (-0800 GMT)
What is rock art worth?

Bill: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:54PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Did people use rock art to decorate the environment? In some cases, yes. That may not be why they made the art, but that was part of the art. There is a site near Virginia City in Nevada where a hillside of boudlers is covered with rock art. Near the bottom of the hill, the images are very small. Near the top of the hill, the images are very large. Viewed from the opposite hillside, the images look to be about the same size. Even if hey created the art for some other reason, the artists contributed to a larger "art work."

Raneta Harris, Chico: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:54PM PST (-0800 GMT)
I am interested in knowing what information there is about the initiation ceremonines / coming of age rituals that are assoicated with rock art in the western states .....

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:55PM PST (-0800 GMT)
carol just called me on the phone

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:55PM PST (-0800 GMT)
what is rock art worth? Since it can't be replaced, it's priceless, no? It is a real heritage which needs to be carefully protected. You wouldn't like it if someone ruined an art work you worked long and hard on!

Dominique@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:55PM PST (-0800 GMT)
How are you doing David. I had a hard time geting on.

Ms Meier -teacher in Arrowhead: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:55PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Is there a book that you would recommend that shows a variety of rock art, both Native American and from other areas or cultures so that students could compare and contrast images from different time periods and/or places?

Miguel,David's brother: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:56PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Did Jean Champolion really discover the rossetta stone or did he only translate it?

cara@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:57PM PST (-0800 GMT)
this is cara's big sister,I am not very good at this stuff, like cara,but,what tribes made rock art?

Daniel@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:57PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Can you give me the answer?

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:57PM PST (-0800 GMT)
do the effects of weather do damage to the rock art

Dominique@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:57PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hello Mr.Sibulkin!

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:58PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Students - when we host our Internet Digs during he mornings, we request close attention to the subject we are discussing - not talking between one another with social comments - please in the evening try to stay on topic ... many of you ARE right on topic and we all feel distracted by the off-topic comments ... stay ON TOPIC please ..... thanks

Tyler@ Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:58PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Goodbye I am going to watch the O'riely factor to get information to see who our next President is going to be.

Bill: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:58PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Some rock art probably pictured real events, some probably related legends. people created rock art for many reasons. But we cannot put a price on rock art because it represents the history of a culture no matter what they wanted to say. Some of us do not really understand the Declaration of Independence because we have never experience the tyranny that our founding fathers experience. But we look on that document as a cherished artifact of our history and what it means to be an American. That is how modern peoples view the rock art created by their ancestors.

Ms Meier -teacher in Arrowhead: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:58PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Janine...thank you for joining us.

cara@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:58PM PST (-0800 GMT)
DANIEL!be nice:(

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:59PM PST (-0800 GMT)
David Whitley's new book, "The Art of the Shaman, Rock art of California" really has a nice variety of stuff from all over California. There is sooooo much rock art around that mostly books cover just small areas. There are absolutely TONS of books on rock art!!!

Miguel,David's brother: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:59PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Does a kartouche only have Egyptian names or also phrases?

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 7:59PM PST (-0800 GMT)
hi,I am Barbara's grandpa what indians create rock art

Tyler@ Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:00PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Daniel what's a "rong"?? It's wrong.

cara@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:01PM PST (-0800 GMT)
BYE!!!

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:01PM PST (-0800 GMT)
did most of vanalden people go

Bill: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:02PM PST (-0800 GMT)
The question about puberty rites--look up information about the Luiseno in southern California. Also find an article by Oxedine (I'm spelling from memory) in the Journal of California and Great Basin Anthropology from about 10 years ago. I posted the name of a book for kids earlier--Native American Rock Art: Messages from the Past. It has many very good pictures, including Chumash rock art and art made by other tribes in California. Virtually every tribe in California made rock art.

cara's big sister: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:02PM PST (-0800 GMT)
In the booklet,it says that they hunted magic.Did they really practice magic?

Daniel@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:02PM PST (-0800 GMT)
NOW I WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I WILL BE ON FOR A LONG TIME.

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:03PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Weather, of course, is hard on any art, any structure, any piece of nature - what we have left is what the weather hasn't gotten around to mashing down yet. Think of all the stuff that has been lost!! Get yourself covered with ash - that protects what you have pretty well!!

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:03PM PST (-0800 GMT)
I think I better go too bye rock artists bye to everyone see you tomorrow vanalden voyagers

Ms Meier -teacher in Arrowhead: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:04PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Sincere thanks to you, Bill and Janet. This has been most informative...we appreciate your expertise!

cara's big sister: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:04PM PST (-0800 GMT)
no1 1,daniel.in fact,i don't think we're playing that anymore.

Daniel@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:04PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Good night my mon is makeing me get of.

Barbar@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:04PM PST (-0800 GMT)
bye MR.SIBULKIN

Janet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:05PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Get out there and view rock art! It's almost everywhere houses aren't...

: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:05PM PST (-0800 GMT)
bye,mr.s,it's cara.at least it was.im leaving.bye,again!

Bill: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:07PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Good night everyone. I hope you continue the chat and discuss among yourselves what rock art might mean and what it does mean to us today. There is no right answer, although I can tell you it was not made by aliens and it does not mark treasure sites. It is a fascinating topic for study and if nothing else, it takes you out into all parts of our wonderful country. Visit your local museums, ask questions, and visit our state parks. There are many public rock art sites that you can find with a little work. I hope you enjoy finding and viewing rock art as much as I do.

Daniel@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:07PM PST (-0800 GMT)
My faverit color is green!GREEN!GREEN!GREEN!GREEN!GREEN!GREEN!GREEN!!!!!!!!!!!

Dominique@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:08PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Did it matter what age they were to do rockart?

Dominique@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:10PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Good night every body at Vanalden!

Daniel@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:11PM PST (-0800 GMT)
I WIN!I WIN!I WIN!I WIN!

Alyssa@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:15PM PST (-0800 GMT)
G'night everyone! THank you for such interesting information on rock art. I have learned a lot tonight. Thank you again! Ally@vanalden

Alyssa@Vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:16PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Whaaaaa?????? I am the last person here????? Oh well, see you later! Ally

carol@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:17PM PST (-0800 GMT)
What materials did the tribes use to make rock art?

carol@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:20PM PST (-0800 GMT)
How much rock art do you know?

carol@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:22PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Well see you all later.By Alissa !From Carol.

David@vanalden: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:25PM PST (-0800 GMT)
Hey Vanalden CHILDREN, didn't your bedtime pass already?

Marcy, Camp Internet: . . . . Thu, Nov 16, 8:28PM PST (-0800 GMT)
The Chat Room is closed for this evening .. but we welcome you to use it as a gallery and scroll back up to view the previously posted questions and answers about Rock Art ... good night